The parent comment and entire thread is 100% correct. There is nothing inherently unstable or unsafe about the MAX 8. It has a pitch-up characteristic that's mild compared to some other commercial jets like the 757.
So much ignorance and misinformation about this issue even on HN.
The only reason MCAS was put on that plane was to allow the MAX 8 to share a type rating with the rest of the 737 family, to make it so that it handles like any other 737 despite the pitch-up characteristic. Pondicherry university entrance exam 2019.
Go ask any commercial pilot, go watch any of the commercial pilots on youtube who have commented on this, go look on stackexchange. The notion that the MAX 8 is inherently unstable, or unsound, or dangerous, is a laughable myth to anyone in the industry. I get that the news cycle is financially rewarded for fearmongering, but I really expected people who frequent HN to know better and do some cursory research into the topic rather than posting comments that perpetuate bullshit.
There are several major issues with what boeing has done, such as the alleged failure to reclassify MCAS as a critical system after flight testing. But instead of discussing these legitimate issues, public debate seems to have been directed towards a bullshit myth about the airframe being inherently unstable. This has been eye-opening and dispelled my notion that HN had above-average quality of discussion on technical topics.
Wall Street Journal ^ | March 12, 2019 | Andrew Tangel and Andy Pasztor
Posted on 03/12/2019 4:10:55 PM PDT by billorites
Boeing To Make Key Change In 737 Max Cockpit Software Review
Boeing Co. BA -6.15% is making an extensive change to the flight-control system in the 737 MAX aircraft implicated in October’s Lion Air crash in Indonesia, going beyond what many industry officials familiar with the discussions had anticipated.
The change was in the works before a second plane of the same make crashed in Africa last weekend—and comes as world-wide unease about the 737 MAX’s safety grows.
The change would mark a major shift from how Boeing originally designed a stall-prevention feature in the aircraft, which were first delivered to airlines in 2017.
U.S. aviation regulators are expected to mandate the change by the end of April.
Boeing publicly released details about the planned 737 MAX software update on its website late Monday. A company spokesman confirmed the update would use multiple sensors, or data feeds, in MAX’s stall-prevention system—instead of the current reliance on a single sensor.
The change was prompted by preliminary results from the Indonesian crash investigation indicating that erroneous data from a single sensor, which measures the angle of the plane’s nose, caused the stall-prevention system to misfire. Then, a series of events put the aircraft into a dangerous dive.
Focus on the update has taken on greater urgency as aviation regulators and airlines around the world have grounded their MAX fleets, following the Ethiopian crash over the weekend—despite no links being made between the two crashes by investigators.
The MAX software change is expected to take about an hour for each plane, a Boeing spokesman said Tuesday. He declined to offer other details about how the system would weigh the multiple data inputs.
“For the past several months and in the aftermath of Lion Air Flight 610, Boeing has been developing a flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX
(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ..
TOPICS:News/Current EventsKEYWORDS:737max; aerospace; boeing; boeing737; boeing737maxNavigation: use the links below to view more comments. first1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-72nextlast
Looks like you're trying to kill yourself and everyone else on board.
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H1B software engineers?
2posted on 03/12/2019 4:12:50 PM PDTby E. Pluribus Unum(Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to 'redistribute.')
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Less Than $588 To Go!! Even George Would Be Shocked To Find Some FReepers Haven't Donated To FR This Quarter! Every Dollar Helps!!
3posted on 03/12/2019 4:14:56 PM PDTby musicman(The future is just a collection of successive nows.)
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'H1B software engineers?'
I don't worry about foreign educated engineers anymore than I worry about foreign educated physicians.
We have a perfectly good supply of domestic, home-grown mediocrities.
4posted on 03/12/2019 4:16:52 PM PDTby billorites(freepo ergo sum)
Boeing To Make Key Change In 737 Max Cockpit Software Reviews
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Boeing To Make Key Change In 737 Max Cockpit Software FreeThe Jar Jar Binks of software! (hey I'm copyrighting that LOL)
5posted on 03/12/2019 4:20:16 PM PDTby SaveFerris(Luke 17:28 .. as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold ...)
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H1B software engineers? ******************** Hopefully not. In the past I’ve worked with some of these who seemingly were employed at comparatively low salaries to rack up “billable hours” charged to the customer at much higher rates.
6posted on 03/12/2019 4:21:07 PM PDTby House Atreides(Boycott the NFL 100% PERMANENTLY)
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Fox just passed on report from Dallas News that 737 Max 8 pilots have complained to Feds for months about safety flaw.
7posted on 03/12/2019 4:22:12 PM PDTby freedom1st(Build the Wall)
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[comparatively low salaries to rack up “billable hours” charged to the customer at much higher rates]
I won’t mention the name of my Big 6 employer (back then) who did exactly that. So nobody ask. Since you mentioned that very thing happening.
And yes, they’re still around.
8posted on 03/12/2019 4:24:39 PM PDTby SaveFerris(Luke 17:28 .. as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold ...)
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Am I imagining things, or did they used to be called the Big Eight a while back?
These numerical designations make me think of other enumerated groups, like the Seven Deadly Sins, or the Eightfold Path.
9posted on 03/12/2019 4:29:31 PM PDTby Pearls Before Swine( 'It's always a party when you're eating the seed corn.')
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Elsawin 03.2017 audi torrent 3. “The MAX software change is expected to take about an hour for each plane, a Boeing spokesman said Tuesday. He declined to offer other details about how the system would weigh the multiple data inputs.”
It took hundreds of human lives to determine that any such software should have done that from the get go. Even a level one visionary could have foreseen this failure and the result of it. Boeing wanted to give computers this kind of power and they did not even plan for a basic sensor failure. Let them pay very dear for it. This is GROSS NEGLIGENCE. Maybe they will eventually even determine that the primary decision belonged in the hands of an experienced pilot and not in the hands of fallible computer hardware and software.
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It matters not who writes the SW. if you have ever experienced the test of flight critical (safety of flight) software you would know that the final deliverable software, in many instances, bears little resemblance to the original. The test regimen is quite intensive. Now, H1B Test Engineers in the Verification and Validation phase would scare me
11posted on 03/12/2019 4:33:25 PM PDTby Cold War Veteran - Submarines
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Pokemon cloud white stark. ‘’H1B software engineers’’
Or, maybe, WV coal miners Obama told to learn to code.
12posted on 03/12/2019 4:33:41 PM PDTby Jackson Brown(Accomplished without a barrier.)
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I want the front line sensor to be me, and the backup sensor too.
13posted on 03/12/2019 4:37:12 PM PDTby mylife(The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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I know nothing of software used in flying planes, so perhaps this will be nonsensical to say.
But, it sounds as if the pilots aren’t fully in control, that somehow the software is in control.
Do the pilots have the ability, I hope, to override software flight manuvers, so as to stay in human control and not crash?
14posted on 03/12/2019 4:37:14 PM PDTby Dilbert San Diego
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Just doing the job Americans refuse To do.
15posted on 03/12/2019 4:38:51 PM PDTby redshawk(0pansy is a Liar and Hates.....he just hates!)
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“Do the pilots have the ability, I hope, to override software flight manuvers, so as to stay in human control and not crash?”
Yes. There is a red button on the left side of the captain’s yoke and the right side of the co-pilot’s yoke that disconnects the automation and the crew can hand fly the aircraft.
16posted on 03/12/2019 4:42:21 PM PDTby CFIIIMEIATP737
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FYI-——very long article,which I’ve read several times,about airplanes “flying themselves” —excellent.
.
.
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The very epitome of software malpractice is a feature that actually causes the problem (crashing) that it purports to solve.
In recent times, how many crashes have actually occurred due to an excessive-angle-of-attack stall? None that I recall.
18posted on 03/12/2019 4:46:01 PM PDTby DarrellZero
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As I recall, the only Big Eight I knew was a collection of colleges for sports.
19posted on 03/12/2019 4:46:32 PM PDTby SaveFerris(Luke 17:28 .. as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold ...)
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'Do the pilots have the ability, I hope, to override software flight maneuvers, so as to stay in human control and not crash?'
That's exactly the point in the Lions Air and Ethiopian Air crashes. Were the pilots trained to recognize the symptoms of a runaway elevator trim situation and know to shut the automated system off.
20posted on 03/12/2019 4:46:43 PM PDTby billorites(freepo ergo sum)
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Boeing says it has finished updating the flight-control software implicated in two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max. That brings the aerospace giant a step closer to getting the plane back in the sky.
Aviation regulators still have more questions about how pilots interact with the plane's controls under different circumstances, and Boeing says it is providing that information. The Federal Aviation Administration, foreign regulators and airlines are reviewing Boeing's plans for additional pilot training, the company said Thursday.
The next major step is a certification flight with FAA representatives. That flight has not yet been scheduled.
In crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia, an automated system called MCAS mistakenly turned the noses of the planes down in response to faulty readings from a single sensor. Pilots were unable to regain control, and 346 people died.
Boeing has delivered about 370 Max jets around the world, but they have been grounded since mid-March. That's causing airlines to cancel flights heading into the busy summer travel season. Boeing has disclosed an initial financial hit of $1 billion to fix the plane, and new Max jets are parked at its Seattle-area factory and elsewhere because deliveries have stopped.
Boeing engineers have been working on the software update for more than six months -- far longer than they expected -- having started shortly after the Oct. 29 crash of a Max operated by Indonesia's Lion Air. The changes will link an anti-stall feature in the flight-control system to two sensors instead of one and will push the nose down less often and less powerfully.
Chicago-based Boeing said it has flown 207 test flights with the new software. 'We're making clear and steady progress, and are confident that the 737 Max with updated MCAS software will be one of the safest airplanes ever to fly,' Chairman and CEO Dennis Muilenburg said in a statement.
Boeing developed the Max early this decade to compete with a jet from its European rival Airbus that was winning over airline customers with its better fuel efficiency. Critics say Boeing rushed the design of the Max; the company disputes that.
'They are rushing'
Relatives of passengers killed in the crashes and safety advocates are concerned that the plane could carry passengers again even before investigations into the crashes are completed. 'They are rushing,' said Nadia Milleron, whose daughter, Samya Stumo, was on the Ethiopian Airlines Max that crashed March 10. 'That's the reason that we had this crash. Safety is first. We need to finish the investigations.'
Federal officials said American Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines flew tens of thousands of flights with the Max and reported no unusual incidents with MCAS. Boeing has implied that the Lion Air and Ethiopian pilots didn't react properly to the plane's automatic downward pitch of the nose, failing to disconnect MCAS in the first case, flying too fast to control the plane in the second.
The extent of additional pilot training is emerging as a key issue. Boeing believes that computer-based training -- the type that could be done on iPads -- is sufficient for pilots who know how to fly older versions of the 737, and a panel of FAA pilot experts agrees.
Some foreign regulators and safety experts said pilots should practice responding to the new software in flight simulators -- a requirement that would delay the plane's return by weeks or months. Paul Hudson, president of the travel-consumer group FlyerRights.org, said Boeing and the FAA seem determined to resist simulator training.
Any FAA plan to let the Max fly without first requiring simulator training for pilots 'makes light of the chain of events that caused these two crashes,' he said, 'and will illustrate the FAA's continued priority for commercial expediency over safety.'
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